吉密欧：我想问关于新疆的问题，过去几年中，新疆进行大规模安全打击的原因是什么？这对“一带一路”经过新疆延伸到有关国家会有什么影响？
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
Jamil Anderlini: I want to ask you about Xinjiang. Can you tell us what’s the main reason for the security crackdown in the last couple of years? What does it mean for Belt and Road going into the neighboring countries through that region?文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
乐玉成：新疆首要的问题是稳定。前些年，新疆自治区出现了一些极端主义和恐怖主义，特别是暴力恐怖主义不仅对当地人民生命财产造成危害，而且还蔓延到北京、昆明等城市。所以，政府必须坚决打击。对恐怖分子、暴恐分子手软，就是对人民心硬。文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
Le Yucheng: For Xinjiang, stability is of paramount importance. A few years ago, extremism and terrorism, violent terrorism in particular, caused casualties and economic losses not just in Xinjiang but also in cities including Beijing and Kunming. Therefore, the government must resolutely crack down on terrorism. Being soft on violent terrorists is tantamount to being harsh on the people.文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
我们这些年在维护新疆稳定、促进新疆发展方面投入很大，也采取了有效措施，总体上稳定了形势，经济也得到了发展，老百姓有了安全感。新疆经济去年增长7.6%，高出全国平均水平。我去年去新疆旅游，亲眼目睹了新疆的稳定和安全。这就是治理的成果，对此当地老百姓是非常赞成和拥护的。中国政府不会允许新疆成为第二个叙利亚、利比亚或者伊拉克。如果新疆动乱蔓延到境外，就会影响中亚和中东地区的稳定，可能也会波及欧洲。文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
In recent years, we have channeled substantial resources to Xinjiang for maintaining stability and promoting development. The measures we have taken have paid off, as evidenced by greater stability, a growing economy and a stronger sense of security among its people. In 2017, Xinjiang’s economy grew by 7.6%, higher than the national average. Last year, I took a trip to Xinjiang, and I saw close-up the stability and development there, which has been the result of all the efforts we have made, efforts that are endorsed and supported by the people of Xinjiang. The Chinese government will not allow Xinjiang to become another Syria, Libya or Iraq. Furthermore, the spillover of instability in Xinjiang may affect stability in Central Asia and the Middle East, or even Europe.文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/5878.html
“一带一路”对新疆的稳定和发展也有积极意义。新疆是中国西向的重要通道或者桥头堡，该地区同其他西部省份已从开放的“后卫”变成“前锋”，可以形成新的开放格局。
The BRI will also contribute to Xinjiang’s stability and development. As an important gateway linking China to regions westwards, Xinjiang, together with other western provinces, have become the forward in opening-up, no longer the backfielder they used to be. This marks a new dimension of China’s opening-up.
吉密欧：美国提出“印太战略”，近来承诺在亚太地区进行基础设施建设。您认为，该战略同“一带一路”倡议是合作还是竞争关系？
Jamil Anderlini: The US has said they want to look at the idea of the Indo-Pacific, and they want to fund some investments there. Do you think this is something that can work with the BRI? Or is it a competitor for the BRI?
乐玉成：亚太地区基础设施建设、互联互通需求很大，缺口很大。据有关机构统计，该地区每年大概需要约17000亿美元投入基础性建设，中国不可能一家包办，需要大家一起干。我们希望各方提出积极的、有利于促进地区发展的建设倡议，达到“相互补台，好戏连台”的效果。
Le Yucheng: The Asia-Pacific has a huge demand for infrastructure investment and connectivity. At the same time, there is a big gap in resources. Some institutions estimate that every year, the Asia-Pacific needs about US$1.7 trillion of investment in infrastructure. Apparently, that cannot be filled by China alone. Everybody needs to pitch in. We welcome various initiatives that will be conducive to regional development and hope to see them complement and reinforce each other.
关于美国的印太战略或者印太经济愿景，我发现有很多类似版本，有日本版、美国版、印度版，东南亚也在酝酿自己的版本。对有利于地区发展、合作的倡议，我们都持开放态度，但坚决反对将印太战略作为工具抗衡“一带一路”，甚至遏制中国。我们主张同心协力，而不是各怀心思，相互牵制必然相互抵消，结果不是1+1>2，而是1-1<0。无论是太平洋、印度洋，还是大西洋，我们都主张变成各显身手的大舞台，而不是竞争博弈的角力场，不应该相互“较量”，而应该相互“照亮”。
The United States has announced its Indo-Pacific strategy or Indo-Pacific Economic Vision. As we have seen, there are various versions of Indo-Pacific strategy, the Japanese, American and Indian version. Southeast Asian countries are also working on their own version. We are open to all initiatives that will help regional development and cooperation. What we are firmly against is attempts to use the Indo-Pacific strategy as a tool to counter the BRI or even contain China. We hope to see parties working in concert rather than pursuing their own agenda and undercutting each other’s efforts. If that’s the case, instead of one plus one equals more than two, the result will be one minus one is less than zero. Whether it is the Pacific Ocean, the Indian Ocean, or the Atlantic Ocean, they should serve as a broad platform that everyone brings into play their strengths, not a theater for rivalry. Parties should work together in concert instead of in contest.
“一带一路”倡议是开放的，不搞“小圈子”，主张战略对接，反对相互排斥。我们一直同各方开展“一带一路”三方或多方合作。德国西门子公司和上百家中国企业携手开拓“一带一路”市场。英国渣打银行2020年底前要为该倡议的相关项目提供至少200亿美元融资支持。美国通用电气公司从该倡议获得了价值23亿美元的设备订单。这样的三方合作，应该大力提倡。
The BRI is an open initiative, not an exclusive bloc. It aims to connect development strategies rather than seek to exclude each other. We have been working with various parties for trilateral cooperation or multi-party cooperation in the BRI framework. Siemens has partnered with over a hundred Chinese companies to explore the BRI market. Standard Chartered will be providing at least US$20 billion of financing to BRI projects by 2020. GE has landed US$2.3 billion of orders from the BRI. Such trilateral cooperation should be encouraged in the future.
吉密欧：我想简短地再就新疆提一个问题，现在媒体都在报道“再教育营”，您怎么看这个问题？
Jamil Anderlini: I want to go back just very briefly to Xinjiang. The media is talking about these camps in Xinjiang. Do you see these camps as part of the solution? Like this is part of stabilizing the region?
乐玉成：我想重申，对新疆而言，稳定是最重要的。为什么新疆会出现恐怖极端分子和组织，就是因为他们被极端思想，特别是伊斯兰极端思想洗脑，才走上了危害家庭、危害社会、害人害己的邪路、绝路。我觉得有必要挽救这些被极端思想洗脑的人，要采取措施帮他们祛除头脑中的极端主义思想，使他们回归正常状态，回归社会！我们主张有病就要早治，不要等到病入膏肓。对有些人，发现有宗教极端思想的苗头，就要帮助他祛除，不能眼看着他走上害人害己的道路。
Le Yucheng: Again, stability is most important for Xinjiang. Why are there terrorists or extremists and their organizations in Xinjiang? Because some people are brainwashed by radical ideologies, especially radical Islamic ideologies, and choose to pursue a wrong and destructive cause, posing a threat to their family and the public and ruining their own life. We need to help them deradicalize, return to a normal life and reintegrate into the society. When there is an illness, treat it before it is too late. Whenever there is a sign of people being influenced by radical religious ideas, we need to help them rather than sit on our hands and do nothing as they move to the point of no return.
我们这一切也是依法依规进行的，我们有刑法，有反恐法。依法维护国家安全是各国通行做法。英国也发生过恐怖袭击事件。2005年7月7日，伦敦地铁恐怖袭击事件发生时，我有个同事就住在恐袭事件地铁站不远处，他五岁的小孩亲身经历了这起事件，到现在都忘不了那段经历。各国政府都有责任确保国家和民众的安全。
The government has done so within the confines of law, including the criminal law and the anti-terrorism law. All governments act to uphold their national security in accordance with the law. The UK is also a victim of terrorist attacks. On 7 July 2005, London was hit by a series of bombings. One of my colleagues lived close to one of the underground stations that was hit by the bombing. His five-year-old kid experienced that horrible tragedy and is still traumatized, unable to forget that experience even today. All governments are obliged to keep the country and their people safe.
吉密欧：中国政府和官员经常说，中国是最大的发展中国家，人均GDP低于很多国家，您认为这个时候开展宏伟的“一带一路”建设会不会有些早？中国国内有很多挑战，您是否认为投向该倡议的资金可以用于自身发展？
Jamil Anderlini: Chinese government and Chinese officials often say China is a developing country and rightly points out that per capita GDP is still much lower than other countries. So do you think maybe this is a bit early for China to be doing something like BRI while there are so many challenges back home. Do you think that maybe that some of this investment and money could be spent back here in China?
乐玉成：中国是最大的发展中国家，人均GDP列在70位以后，还有3000万贫困人口，相当于英国人口的二分之一，发展不充分不平衡问题很突出。但我们不觉得现在搞对外合作太早，恰恰是很有必要，因为我们生活在全球化时代，各国利益相互依存得更加紧密，中国同世界的利益融合不断加深。我们石油对外依存度超过70%，每年进口大豆9000多万吨，其他大宗商品对外依赖度也很高，不可能关起门来搞建设。习近平主席多次宣布中国改革开放大门不会关上，只会越开越大，我们欢迎各国企业到中国来，同时也鼓励我们的企业走出去。
Le Yucheng: China is still the largest developing country. Our per capita GDP ranks behind 70th in the world, and we have over 30 million poor people, which is half of UK’s population. And we do face the daunting challenge of inadequate and unbalanced development. But I don’t think it is too early to pursue external cooperation at this point. On the contrary, that’s what is needed at the moment. Because today’s world is a globalized world, countries’ interests are more closely intertwined than ever before, and China’s interests are deeply integrated with the rest of the world.
China imports about 70% of its oil needs and more than 90 million tons of soybeans every year. We also depend heavily on imports for many other commodities, which makes it impossible for us to develop behind closed doors.
President Xi has made clear repeatedly that the door of reform and opening-up will not close, but will only open wider and wider. We welcome foreign investment to China. At the same time, we also encourage Chinese companies to explore the global market.
改革开放经过40年，也到了进一步升级的时候。“一带一路”就是改革开放的“升级版”。通过“一带一路”可以促进贸易多元化，可以在全球范围内配置生产要素和发展资源，可以进一步完善改革开放格局。从沿海开放向沿海沿边同时开放并举，使我们的西部地区进一步成为开放前沿。
This year marks the 40th anniversary of China’s reform and opening-up. It’s about time to take it to a higher level. The BRI is an upgraded version of China’s reform and opening-up. It will help diversify trade, allocate production factors and development resources globally, and improve the reform and opening-up structure of China. Following the coastal areas, the hinterland is rapidly catching up, making the western region the new forefront of China’s opening-up.
我们通过“一带一路”促进自身发展的同时，也向一些发展中国家提供力所能及的帮助。我们认为，在当今世界无论是一个人还是一个国家，都不能太自私，不能老是讲本国利益至上，更不能见利忘义、以邻为壑。五年来我们同“一带一路”相关国家的货物贸易额累计超过5万亿美元，对外直接投资超过700亿美元，对外承包工程合同金额超过5000亿美元。去年“一带一路”国际合作高峰论坛期间，我们同有关国家达成了279项合作成果。这些成果已经或者正在得到落实。我们在全球各地建设的82个经贸合作区上缴东道国税费超过20亿美元，为当地创造20多万个就业岗位。我们使世界上最大的内陆国哈萨克斯坦拥有了出海口，可以通过连云港来到太平洋；让老挝可望通过中老铁路由陆锁国变成陆联国；让群岛国家马尔代夫实现了拥有桥梁的梦想；让白俄罗斯第一次有了自己的轿车制造业，这个国家的工业园成为欧亚地区面积最大的工业园。印度尼西亚雅万铁路、塞尔维亚匈塞铁路已经开工建设，刚才我讲的非洲四条铁路已经完工，还有其他公路铁路正在建设。这些“一带一路”的早期收获，表明该倡议契合中国发展实际，它不超前，而是顺应和引领了时代的潮流。
We hope that through the BRI, we can achieve greater development and also be better positioned to help other developing countries. We believe that people, or countries for that matter, can’t just care about themselves, put self-interest above everything else or seek a beggar-thy-neighbor approach.
For the past five years, the total volume of goods traded between China and BRI countries has exceeded US$5 trillion. Direct Chinese investment surpassed US$70 billion, and the total value of contracted projects is over US$500 billion.
During last year’s Belt and Road Forum, China and relevant countries reached a total of 279 outcomes, which have been or on course to be delivered. Around the world, China has helped build 82 economic and trade cooperation zones, contributing over US$2 billion of tax revenues and over 200,000 jobs to host countries.
With our cooperation, Kazakhstan, the largest landlocked country, has a sea outlet and can now access the Pacific through the Lianyungang port in China. The China-Laos railway is expected to turn Laos, a landlocked country, into a land-linked country. And Maldives, a country of islands, has seen its dream of being connected by bridge come true. For the first time in its history, Belarus has its own passenger car production facility, and the industrial park set up by China there is the largest in Eurasia.
The construction of the Jakarta-Bandung railway and the Belgrade-Budapest railway has been kicked off. Four railways have been completed in Africa, and a number of railways and roads are under way. These are the early harvests of the BRI and they fully demonstrate that the BRI is in line with China’s development stage. Rather than being ahead of the times, the BRI is in keeping with and leading the trend of the times.
