双语:外交部副部长乐玉成接受英国《金融时报》专访实录

摘要

Full Text: Le Yucheng’s Exclusive Interview with the Financial Times

乐玉成接受《金融时报》专访

外交部副部长乐玉成接受英国《金融时报》专访实录

Transcript of Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng’s Exclusive Interview with the Financial Times

 

2018年9月10日,外交部副部长乐玉成接受英国《金融时报》亚洲版总编吉密欧专访。以下为文字实录:

 

On 10 September 2018, Vice Foreign Minister Le Yucheng sat down with Jamil Anderlini, the Asia Editor of the Financial Times, for an exclusive interview. The following is the full transcript:

 

吉密欧:关于“一带一路”和马歇尔计划的关系。想必您也多次听说这种类比。虽然中国政府强调“一带一路”倡议不能同马歇尔计划相提并论,但许多人还是坚持有类似之处。“一带一路”倡议同样涉及大规模基础设施投资,同样有助于改善中国在全世界的形象,也是和平时期实施的计划。它们难道没有类似之处吗?

 

Jamil Anderlini: This idea of the Marshall Plan, you hear this over and over. The government in Beijing says the Belt and Road Initiative shouldn’t be compared to the Marshall Plan. But many people still say it’s similar. It’s a lot of spending on infrastructure and it helps improve the image of China around the world. It’s all done in peacetime. So isn’t there some similarities? Or not.

 

乐玉成:我觉得两者之间可以说有一点相似,比如在推动基础设施建设方面,或者都是和平时期的倡议或计划。但是二者本质上完全不同。首先,从历史经纬看,“一带一路”与马歇尔计划相比,既古老又年轻。说古老,是因为它传承了2000年的丝绸之路精神,是古代“丝绸之路”的现代版。说年轻,是因为它诞生于21世纪的全球化时代,是开放合作的产物。

 

Le Yucheng: It may appear that the two initiatives have something in common, as they are both about investment in infrastructure in peacetime. But other than that, they cannot be more different. First, time-line wise, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is older and also younger than the Marshall Plan. Older because it draws inspiration from the spirit of the ancient Silk Road with over 2000 years of history, hence the modern version of the Silk Road. It is younger than the Marshall Plan, because it was conceived in the 21st century, an era of globalization, and born out of opening-up and cooperation.

 

其次,马歇尔计划是冷战时代美苏争霸的产物,带有明显的意识形态、地缘政治色彩,而“一带一路”是经济合作倡议、互联互通倡议。

 

Secondly, the Marshall Plan was introduced during the Cold War dominated by rivalry between the United States and the former Soviet Union. Therefore, it had clear geopolitical and ideological goals. The BRI, on the other hand, focuses on economic cooperation and connectivity.

 

2013年9月,我作为中国驻哈萨克斯坦大使,有幸见证了习近平主席在哈萨克斯坦纳扎尔巴耶夫大学演讲时,第一次提出“一带一路”倡议,也就是建立“丝绸之路经济带”。习主席演讲结束后,纳扎尔巴耶夫总统明确支持并高度评价,这是“一带一路”倡议最早获得的国际支持。

 

In September 2013, President Xi Jinping first proposed the BRI, the “Silk Road Economic Belt”, during his speech at the Nazarbayev University in Kazakhstan. I was there as the Chinese Ambassador. After the speech, President Nazarbayev expressed his clear support and applauded the proposal. That was the earliest international support that the BRI has received.

 

为什么习主席选择哈萨克斯坦宣布这个倡议呢?首先,哈萨克斯坦是中亚大国,中亚经历了苏联解体后的动荡和战乱,2013年时已经稳定,人民迫切渴望发展经济和开展对外合作。其次,中亚也是中国通向中东、非洲乃至欧洲的陆上必经之路。从上述背景看,最初提出“一带一路”倡议就是为了推进经济合作和互联互通。

 

Why did President Xi choose to announce this initiative in Kazakhstan? First of all, Kazakhstan is a major country in central Asia. After all the turbulence and conflicts following the breakup of the former Soviet Union, stability has taken hold in Central Asia in 2013 and people there longed for development and cooperation. Secondly, central Asia is the land route linking China to the Middle East, Africa and Europe. Such a backdrop shows that the BRI was proposed for economic cooperation and connectivity.

 

“一带一路”倡议与马歇尔计划的另一个区别,就是马歇尔计划有一个分界线,主要针对西欧国家,排斥苏联东欧阵营,但“一带一路”坚持共商共建共享,大家一起干。这符合中国和平发展、合作共赢的外交政策,也是推动构建人类命运共同体重要尝试或平台。当今世界,保护主义、单边主义、霸凌主义不断抬头,反全球化势力活跃。我们提出“一带一路”倡议,旨在聚合各方力量,开展国际合作。这在当前形势下具有特殊重要意义,也为推动建设公正平等的国际新秩序和完善全球治理体系变革,提供了有益的启示和探索。

 

Another feature sets the BRI apart from the Marshall Plan. The Marshall Plan drew a clear line at Western European countries and not including the former Soviet Union and those in Eastern Europe. But the BRI follows the principle of consultation, cooperation and benefits for all, featuring broad participation. This is determined by China’s foreign policy characterized by peaceful development and win-win cooperation, and means to provide a platform to explore the building of a community with a shared future for mankind.

 

In today’s world, we see a trend of rising protectionism, unilateralism, bullying and anti-globalization. We hope to pool strengths for closer international cooperation through the BRI. It is highly relevant given the current international landscape, and represents a useful effort in building a more fair and equitable new international order and in the reform of the global governance structure.

 

吉密欧:您觉得现阶段“一带一路”倡议总体来说究竟是加强还是削弱了中国的软实力和全球影响力?

 

Jamil Anderlini: Thinking about this idea of soft power and China’s influence of power around the world. Do you think the Belt and Road is on balance enhancing China’s soft power or hurting China’s soft power right now?

 

乐玉成:五年来的实践表明,“一带一路”倡议在国际上是很受欢迎的。去年5月,我们举行了首届“一带一路”国际合作高峰论坛,140 多个国家和80多个国际组织嘉宾与会,其中包括29个国家领导人,盛况空前。

 

Le Yucheng: The implementation of the BRI in the past five years shows how it has caught on internationally. We held the first Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation in May last year, which attracted unprecedented representation of over 140 countries and 80 international organizations, including leaders from 29 countries.

 

欧洲是共建“一带一路”的重要合作伙伴,8位欧洲国家领导人以及英、法、德、欧盟领导人代表参加了峰会。我们没有听说哪个欧洲国家反对该倡议。法国总统马克龙今年1月访华时,对“一带一路”表达了热情支持。英国首相特使、财政部长哈蒙德去年出席论坛时,表示英国是“一带一路”的天然伙伴。还有人说,“一带一路”架起了中欧合作的桥梁,而不是垒起了高墙。

 

Europe is an important partner for the BRI. Eight leaders of European countries and representatives from the UK, France, Germany and the EU attended last year’s Belt and Road Forum. So far, we haven’t heard any single European leader opposing the BRI. French President Macron expressed his support and interest during his visit to China last January. Philip Hammond, Special Envoy for the British Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer, described the UK as a natural partner for the BRI when addressing last year’s forum. Others have said that the BRI is a bridge for China-Europe cooperation, not a high wall.

 

中欧双方在今年7月第20次领导人会晤期间同意加强“一带一路”同欧洲投资计划、泛欧交通网等发展规划的对接。英国还成立了“一带一路”专家理事会。亚洲基础设施投资银行与“一带一路”紧密相关,英、法、德等25个欧洲国家加入了该机构。刚刚结束的中非合作论坛北京峰会迎来了51位非洲国家领导人,包括40位总统,10位总理,1位副总统,他们对“一带一路”倡议予以高度评价。迄今,有37个非洲国家同中方签署了“一带一路”合作协议或备忘录,使得同中国签署“一带一路”合作文件的国家和组织达到130 多个。

 

During the 20th China-EU Summit last July, the two sides agreed to create greater synergy between the BRI and EU’s development initiatives, including the Investment Plan for Europe and the Trans-European Transport Networks. The UK has set up a City Expert Board for BRI cooperation. Twenty-five European countries, including the UK, France and Germany, have joined the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), which has close ties with the BRI.

 

The just-concluded Beijing Summit of Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC) was attended by 51 African leaders, including 40 presidents, 10 prime ministers, and one vice president. They all spoke highly of the BRI. Up to date, 37 African countries have signed agreements or MOUs with China on BRI cooperation, taking the total number to over 130.

 

许多国家都把“一带一路”看成机遇,看成同中方加强合作的重要平台,包括拉美国家。“一带一路”倡议起初没打算延伸到拉美,但他们说,我们国家发掘出了很多中国瓷器,也应该算“一带一路”沿线国家。这表明,大家都想成为“一带一路”合作伙伴。

 

Many countries see the BRI as an opportunity and a platform for closer cooperation with China, including Latin American countries. Originally, the BRI did not extend to Latin America. But they say Chinese porcelain was discovered there, showing that they are also part of the BRI. This speaks to the interest of many to be partners of the BRI.

 

“一带一路”倡议如此受欢迎,是我们提出之初没有想到的。我跟你讲个故事,就是哈萨克斯坦总统纳扎尔巴耶夫去年出席论坛时,见到论坛盛况就问中国领导人,当初中方提出该倡议时,想到会有如此的盛况和影响力了吗?中国领导人回答,既想到也没想到,想到的是这项倡议符合中国的发展阶段和世界潮流,也是世界人民的愿望。没想到的是,大家对“一带一路”这么热情地支持。中国领导人的回答真切地表明,“一带一路” 倡议的影响力在不断扩大。

 

The BRI has been warmly welcomed to an extent that has far exceeded our expectations. Let me share with you an anecdote. When President Nazarbayev was in Beijing for the Belt and Road Forum and saw the level of attendance, he asked the Chinese leader if China had ever expected such strong attraction and impact of the BRI when it was first announced. The Chinese leader said, yes and no. Yes, because the BRI is in line with China’s development stage and responds to the trend of the times as well as the aspirations of people across the world. But what we didn’t expect is this overwhelming support. That answer really shows how the BRI has caught on.

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